How many BBB logos are there?
What is the Better Business Bureau? It’s not a government agency. It’s not policed by a government agency. It’s not even run like a top down corporation. It’s a franchise model, run by local “owners” or “President/CEOs.” It is a private institution run by local presidents that make their living on selling local merchants on becoming a member. Their tactic is to first incent a merchant by sharing data on how many hits their website gets from people inquiring about their particular type of business. They offer assurances that this will lead to more business. Then, they use the old fashioned scare tactic that if you don’t become a member, people will not be able to find you on their site and will become concerned about doing business with an unaccredited firm. To make matters more interesting, they then scare you into thinking that complaints will be filed against you and you will have no recourse if you do not become a member. Well, I caved and signed up. I had no choice. Here’s what happened since…
At first, we were listed with a B- (before we joined). How they knew anything about us is beyond me, but that is where we got started. I told them I’d be happy to sign up if that rating was increased to an A. In a matter of hours, we were an A- and we agreed to join. Since joining, we have received only a handful of complaints (9 complaints in four years, all resolved, out of ~150,000 appointments). Not too shabby IMHO! Even better, we resolved all of them to full satisfaction and refunded all monies requested. That’s how we do business at Make It Work.
I’ve remained a skeptic about the BBB and as a result of an email I received a couple of weeks ago from them, I have raised the skepticism threat level.
Here’s the email I received:
Eric,
My name is (removed as a courtesy) emailing from the Better Business Bureau.
Your BBB has formed a strategic alliance to help save you money in your everyday costs starting immediately. The savings is significant and guaranteed (check the attachment to learn more)!
Here’s the Attachment:
The BBB just changed credit card processors because of the 72% savings offered on our processing costs. This amounts to more than $4000.00 per year. First Data of Santa Barbara has offered to extend below market rates to current accredited businesses like yours – again, just like they did for your BBB. Real quickly, most companies that offer credit card processing are a middle-man (most banks are middle-man). But your BBB wants you to get processing directly from the largest processor in the world. No Middleman means Big Savings!
I am sitting at the BBB right now! I am not just some salesman from another middleman company offering you some illusion or miniscule amount of savings that isn’t worth your time. I have been asked by your Better Business Bureau to help accredited businesses like you keep more of the money you earn. This is my sole objective for January of 2010.
To get your free rate comparison to find out how much ________ of Santa Barbara can save your business, fax your last processing statement to the BBB secure fax line at (805) xxx-8557.
If you have any questions email me at theguysname@santabarbara.bbb.org or give me a call on the BBB member’s only line at (805) 965-xxxx or on my cell at (805) xxx-80xx to discuss these benefits.
Have a great day and thank you for supporting the BBB.
To Your Success,
_____________ / Regional Accounts Manager
cell: (805) ___-8001
fax: (805) ___-8557
theguysname@santabarbara.bbb.org
www._____data.com
________ of Santa Barbara
_____Coast Village Rd. 10-J
Santa Barbara, CA 93108
Notice that the email address “_______@santabarbara.bbb.org” is from the BBB itself. He even starts the email by saying “…from the Better Business Bureau.” I should trust that right? But this is a pseudo regulatory body, the official “complaint department,” at least that’s what I’ve always believed? Why would they solicit me on credit card processing? Anyhow, I replied and asked who pays who here and found that the processing company pays the emailer a commission for his sales. Shocking, right? I then called the president of the Santa Barbara BBB and asked him why they do this. He told me this was a service the BBB provided to its customers since they saved so much money on the same service. Great I said, but why use the BBB email address and pose as a BBB staff member if that’s the case? Anyhow, I won’t go into the details of the rest of the conversation as most of it was just bbb b.s.
Today, I received this email from the BBB:
We’re writing to let you know that during the past month the Reliability Report that we publish on Make It Work was accessed 6 times. In most cases these viewings are done by potential customers who are checking on your company’s rating.
Our reporting system relies on an algorithm that takes into account a variety of business factors including complaint and other business information. Based on those factors, it assigns ratings from “A+” down to “F.” The thousands of inquiries we get every day show that the public believes our reports are an important predictor of a company’s reliability.
We also want you to use and understand this valuable product so that you may attract and retain customers. One immediate step you can take to maximize your company’s rating is to ensure that all information we publish on your company is accurate and up to date.
Please click on the following link to view the report on your company:
http://www.santabarbara.bbb.org/BusinessReport.aspx?CompanyID=11000916
Remember that incomplete or inaccurate information can affect your company’s rating. If any information in the report is inaccurate, or if you have other concerns or questions, please contact us at __________.
Being accredited by the Better Business Bureau places you with an elite group of companies whom the public trusts. Again, thank you for your time and support!
BBB of Ventura, Santa Barbara and San Luis Obispo Counties
So I clicked on the link as they suggested. When I got there, two complaints were showing, both from 2008. I was saddened to read them as we really are all about EXTREME Customer Service at Make It Work. On the first complaint, we had responded immediately and provided a “full refund.” However, the second complaint, had no response from us. I checked with our Director of Delight and she assured me we gave a full refund to both and that we formally responded to this within the required time, but the BBB website had a technical issue. I emailed the CEO:
I’m very concerned about two matters.
First, we remain an A-. Our history is practically impeccable. Please advise.
Also, at
http://www.santabarbara.bbb.org/PublicComplaints.aspx?CompanyID=11000916 we have been unable to resolve this issue due to technical issues on your site and yet this remains on our profile. The customer comment about us being a scam without our ability to rebut, is quite unfair and damaging to our brand.
Can you please advise how to remedy these issues.
They replied with:
The algorithm that we use takes into account a variety of factors in its calculation and one of them of course is complaint traffic but also such factors as your length of time in business.
We have tested the algorithm on millions of businesses over a span of almost six years now and feel that it produces a fairly accurate representation of a company’s reliability. We regret that you feel the algorithm doesn’t accurately reflect your opinion of your company’s reliability but remember that if all factors remain fairly constant, as time goes by your rating will increase.
As to your inability to respond to a complaint filed and you were accused of “scamming” the consumer, you already have responded to the complaint.
However, we removed it from the complaint details page of our website.
Please let me know if there is anything else we can help you with.
“Removed it from the complaint details page of our website.” << REALLY? Now it gets good! Here’s what I got next…
Again, I regret the fact that you disagree with our algorithm.
Here are some stats
2006 Closed Complaints – 1
2007 Closed Complaints – 2
2008 Closed Complaints – 2
2009 Closed Complaints – 4
Let me ask you this, how many customers do you service in a month? What is the dollar volume of business you do in a year? I ask because you may qualify for a different algorithm
I don’t understand what you are referring to about a complaint where we removed your response. We have not removed any responses from any complaints. Can you let me know where on your report you get the impression that you didn’t respond to a complaint?
http://www.santabarbara.bbb.org/Business-Report/Make-It-Work-11000916
Moments later, both complaints were completely GONE from the site and our A- is now an A+.
To me, this BBB thing doesn’t seem to be what it’s cracked up to be. I’m thinking Yelp knows this.
UPDATE: After writing this post, I found this Tweet from the same BBB:
“Sick and tired of unwanted email ‘Spam’? Review our tips on how to ‘can’ that Spam at http://bit.ly/7bQ0so“
{ 20 comments… read them below or add one }
Eric… It’s my opinion that the BBB is quickly becoming irrelevant with the rise in popularity of online reviews from google etc. They used to be able to control the information. Not so anymore. Information access is in the hands of the customer now. …Howard
Hi, I got a call from the local BBB today, fleecing me for money. They expect me to pay them if I want “protection from customer complaints” and basically the ability to make them go away. No thanks. It’s a conflict of interest for the consumer, and a scam to get money out of businesses. I agree with the above comment about online reviews being more relevant. I install sound systems for a living, if anyone has any questions about my work, I would rather I answer them myself, because there is no way anyone at the BBB would have a clue as to how some of this new technology works without hands on experience, and I gladly take potential customers out to install sites to show them my work in operation. The BBB can suck it, I’m not giving them a dime.
Eric:
Thank you for taking the time to detail your all-to-typical experiences with the BBB. What you have written will go far in helping others understand the BBB isn’t what it says it is–a place to “Start With Trust”. I first saw through the BBB’s lack of ethics in late December 2008. I, too, was a member of the BBB at the time. Since, I find thousands of solid business owners and consumers from all walks arrive at the same point that I did–the BBB is only in it for the money. Your post has hastened the day the BBB must change it ways or go the way of the dinosuar.
As a consumer, I used to think the BBB cared about resolving problems between customers and businesses. I no longer think that is the case.
No matter what information is furnished, in my last encounters with the BBB, they find the business is always right.
So if they once were useful in sizing up a business, seems they now represent business only and are not very interested in having the parties reach any sort of accord.
I’d be interested to know who other than Yelp now is doing online rating or negotiating between consumers/ businesses and has stepped into the void? Please email me if you can.
The BBB in my opinion is legalized extortion. They are no different than the Russian Mafia who offer your small business “protection” for a fee.
In a phone conversation with a BBB representative, I asked them why my rating was a B and they said that I was not a member and if I where a member the rating would be higher. I also asked the lady why is it when I called in to inquiry about a complaint, I was placed on hold indefinitely and had to call back several times until I finally gave up. She replied that if I’m not a member, I am not a priority.
There’s your BBB folks. They really don’t have any value other than scamming businesses out of money.
We are a business and so far the bbb has always sided with the customer; they do not take into account contracts signed by customers that say nonrefundable and they always want us to meet the customer halfway even if we are are already out of pocket because of the customer’s actions. If we don’t respond, then we get a bad rating.
One customer we are currently dealing with wands 2/5s of their money back for a seasonal contract they signed, which means they would pay less for a site in our campground that anyone else.
Why doesn’t the bbb look at legalities and point this out to cusomters; why do we have to meet cusomters halfway even when they are wrong.
In one complaint, I had already given the customer back $100 just as a goodwill gesture, yet the bbb took credit for solving the problem….it was solved to begin with.
Boy I wish there was somewhere to complain about the BBB; they are harrassing us as far as I’m concerned and they let consumers slander us and insult us in writing on their website, without any followup or investigation as to the truth. It is just a he says/she says and whoever gives up first is the bad guy.
The BBB is a Mafia organization. I got a call today telling me that people are checking up on me at the BBB. I need to send them a check for $395 so they can show my customers that I’m accredited. To be honest, they scared me half to death, I’m in the process of signing some major contracts. I then called some of the companies I’m doing business with and the response was, “Why would we call the BBB?”
The woman also told me that part of their deal is providing access to attorney’s. I guess that is their way of saying they will give me “protection” for signing up.
They are a complete scam research Signet Financial on the web and see all the angry posts then check the BBB’s own complaint log and Signet Financial gets an A+????? They bought thier rating. It’s sick because there are a lot of consumers who rely on them. They should be called onto the carpet.
Signet Financial Group
BBB processed a total of 111 complaints about Signet Capital Corporation in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total of 111 complaints closed in 36 months, 59 were closed in the last year.
These complaints concerned :
+ 2 regarding Issue Not Defined
+ 12 regarding Contract Issues
11 – Failure to honor a contract or agreement
1 – None of the Above – Contract Complaint Issue
+ 23 regarding Guarantee or Warranty Issues
1 – Disputed warranty coverage and/or terms
17 – Failure to honor money-back guarantees
1 – Failure to honor service under the terms of warranties
4 – None of the Above – Guarantee or Warranty Complaint Issue
+ 74 regarding Refund or Exchange Issues
30 – Failure to honor promised refunds, exchanges, or credit
30 – Failure to honor refund, exchange or credit policies
14 – None of the Above – Refund or Exchange Complaint Issue
These complaints were closed as:
+ 66 Resolved
31 – Company resolved the complaint issues. The consumer acknowledged acceptance to BBB.
35 – Company addressed the complaint issues. The consumer failed to acknowledge acceptance to BBB. (meaning the consumer got fed up and dropped the issue and Signet lied)
+ 45 Administratively Closed (according to the BBB they could not get the consumer and the company to resolve the issue using basic methods meaning these have probably progressed to law suits)
Consumers BEWARE of BBB Better Business Bureau
Businesses BEWARE of BBB Better Business Bureau
I have opened many businesses. I have thousands of extremely satisfied consumers buying my products/services month after month year after year. I have only been contacted by on two occasions.
In both of my company’s first contact, BBB solicited thousands of dollars of money for memberships. Both times coincidentally, I received a second call almost simultaneously stating that there was a consumer (baseless) complaint filed against me. Both times I and the complainants themselves proved the complainants were not really consumers. Both times I refused to give money. Both times the posted a consumer complaint and posted a negative rating against my businesses related to individuals who were NOT actually paying consumers of mine per the alleged consumers themselves.
The first non-consumer complaint was actually a job applicant NOT a consumer. The complainant himself even admitted to BBB he was an independent contractor or (disgruntled job applicant) who solicited a job from me that did not work out. No money was paid to my business for services or product from this contractor. He was NOT my consumer. As evidence I even submitted a copy of a voice mail the contractor left for me which caught him in a lie. Ultimately, I did not buy a BBB membership. Coincidentally, BBB responded by posting the fictitious alleged complaint and a negative score.
The second fictitious alleged complaint was from someone who is NOT a paying consumer. They actually happened to be responsible for bringing a disturbance that threatened to damage my business which was responded to by the police. The complainant themselves admitted to BBB they signed a contract to purchase services and products from my business and admitted they did NOT pay me. They admitted they had my property and did not return it. They admitted to BBB their payment bounced. They still have my property and they still have not paid me and I have not pursued them. They cost my business hundreds of dollars. They used BBB as a vehicle to induce me to relinquish all my rights to pursue them in the court of law. Ultimately, I did not buy a BBB membership. Coincidentally, BBB responded by posting the fictitious alleged complaint and a negative score.
Would you want to base buying decisions on reports of NON-CONSUMERS who are disgruntled because they did not get employment? Or NON-CONSUMERS are just using the BBB as a vehicle to get something free or a competitor trying do some damage? Or worse, would you want a list of those companies who don’t line the pockets of BBB?
Consumers trust in BBB to guide them to find the company with the best business practices. Are consumers getting valuable advice or is there a violation of “Dual Agency”? BBB purports to be agents of consumers protecting them from bad business practices but BBB takes money from the businesses! Can it be another name for payoff’s? Does BBB soliciting thousands of dollars from businesses who worry about BBB retaliation resemble extortion? BBB is a private for profit business. I tried to file a complaint against BBB. They won’t let me.
Correct me if I am wrong, but if they have 1,000,000 companies registered (could be more) and are charging $1000 per year for each. (some companies pay much more than $1000) That is $1 Billion dollars per year that the BBB is collecting in fees. How much profit is the BBB really making?
There is a place to complain about the BBB. You can go to YP.com and google maps, and yahoo local, find their business listing, and tell them what you really think about the BBB. Links to this site and bbbroundup and ripoffreport are a good idea. If everyone who wants to complain about the BBB does it on that forum, it will start to get noticed.
I have been called numerous times by the BBB! and asked to join up as a member. I have checked on companies with them with over 40 complaints and an A rating, which is astonishing!!!, well downright shameful. Recently I lodged a complaint for a badly damaged senior citizen friend of mine which drew NO RESPONSE from the BBB. The Company had over 10 complaints against them with again an A rating!!,The Senior Citizen had to hire an attorney to resolve the issue, hmmmm, seems as though they really are protecting their paying membership, and NOT the CUSTOMER! or PUBLIC. It appears this is a Ruse, Deception to the consuming public… and as for them being a NON PROFIT, guess it only matters how one keeps the books.
BBB is supposed to stand for Better Business Bureau, I think it is more like the Bad Business Bureau.. These companies I checked on had more than just a few complaints with the Attorney Generals office/Dept of Justice, and Contractors Board of my state, and YES BBB thought they were just fine… I can only advise the public to NOT USE their members as a resource or reference! for finding reliable service providers. And for the Businesses out there, this is a complete SCAM! and should be avoided, keep your money and do not give them any dollars…..
We received a phone call from the Raleigh BBB asking us if we wanted to resolve a complaint made by a consumer. We were informed that in order to guarantee “resolve” in the matter we would need to write a check to the local BBB for $600.00. Essentially attempting to extort money from our business.
They explained that they had mailed two complaint letters, we received one AFTER they called us, that we had limited time to adhere to their complaint schedule; in other words send them money now. I explained to them that I would review the compliant and contact them back, after reviewing what they initially put online we determined that the customer, WHO WOULD NOT REVEAL THEIR REAL NAME, was a person who had in fact ripped our company off.
This customer thought he knew what was wrong with his boat and insisted he was right, even though he could not fix it himself; to the point of claiming we were even trying to rip him off. He had an electrical issue that required swapping out most of the system (battery, plugs, cables, starter, wires) to find the problem. He wrote us a check, while not complaining about anything and picked up his jetski then canceled the check. He has never returned any of the seven phone calls made to him by us about the matter. Which we have informed the police about.
After filing a complaint with the BBB and of course not bothering to contact us, as we apparently don’t know what we are doing, according to him; he them canceled his personal check to us and refuses to clear his complaint with the BBB even though he received free service and parts, which he also refuses to return. The Wake County Sheriff’s office has told us that after we file a civil complaint and win a judgment they would then charge him with felony theft. Unfortunately for us as a small business that customer’s $573.00 bill is simply not worth the day in court and one thousand dollar filing fee charged by Wake County. This is one of the many reasons why dealerships and honest service shops will not bother with mobile service, there is no automatic lien placed on the property enforceable in court without a civil suit process. Our company lost more than $170.00′s in parts cost, which the BBB refuses to acknowledge since we refuse to pay them their extortion fee. I have gone as far as threatening to contact the local police and record their phone calls next time they decide to allow someone with no evidence to libel us online and then extort money from our business. Consequently, the Raleigh BBB gave our company an F rating and wrote three of their own bad reviews about us, because we would not pay them to remove the original complaint.
We have had/handled 15 serious customer complaints in seven years of doing business out of more than three thousand service jobs performed(and we can back that up with documentation in court). Out of the total available market in Wake County we are currently servicing 5% annually and have a referral rate of 20% meaning that 1 in five customers has been referred by an existing customer. Other than a phone book listing Dave’s Marine Services spends no money on advertising.
You said what the rest of us have been thinking perfectly Eric… Good job!
In a recent conversation one of the reps actually stated that the BBB was paid by Google for their accredited member information. Decent back link, agreed… But the BBB actually getting a paycheck from google?
Lately I’ve noticed with some of the less technology savvy industries such as ‘roofers’ they have taken a special few of the accredited members that have agreed to pay an additional 95 a month for a BBB sponsored adwords campaign and put them in a list before all of the other members in the regular member directory. To the untrained eye it appears they only have 5 accredited members rather than the entire list of 23 that have shelled out hundreds.
Are these guys the BBB or an advertising agency? If this is an advertisement wouldn’t it be an honorable mention to list this was a paid advertisement at least so that the remaining accredited members had a fair shake?
DID YOU KNOW? A member of the board, at the Maryland BBB is the president of an auto warranty company. They have had 26 complaints in the last 15 years, and have sold in excess of 1,800,000 contracts.
WOW. That’s 1,800,000 cars that have not incurred mechanical failures. KUDOS TO THE AUTO MANUFACTURERS.
With such statistics, why would anyone need an extended auto warranty contract?
Naturally, we chose to remain nameless, as the BBB has a harsh and vindictive retribution.
I want to know who the BBB is accountable to? They have single handidly tried to ruin our company. We have tried to resolve whatever problem they have with us, but it seems they can do whatever they want. We have recieved threats of an F rating amoung other things. These are the rudest people I have ever dealt with and I regret ever signing up with them. (Toledo, Oh BBB) I have contacted thier so called President in hopes to resolve this deep rooted sickness they have against us with no response. I have invited him and his croonies to our place of business, with no response. They need to be accountable to someone!!! They should not be allowed to go around and threaten businesses anytime they wish. Besides a lawsuit which I am considering….what else can I do to hold them responsible for thier actions? BTW—they are the biggest scam artists I have ever seen. I will never be apart of this organization again.
Here’s a goodie. I inquired about becoming Accredited a week ago while I was updating company info. Soon got a call with the sales pitch toward both Accreditation & TrustLink, plus a ton of empty compliments on my personality (which is silly because I can be a total @$$hole). I held off to review more.
I get a call 20 minutes ago from another nearby BBB office in Culver City from a woman who claimed we owed them back payments for being Accredited since 2005 and fees for updating the info! I pulled up our site profile and advised her to do the same, showing that we’re not currently accredited and our info had already been updated. I asked what I was paying for again and she responded with how great Accreditation can be for our business. Sorry BBB, what was once an interested customer is now a bitter man plotting against you.
The BBB is a great company that I have used many times to decide who I should use. If you are recieving threats or a bad rating it is because you provided a service that was unsatisfactory. And im sure the people that reported unsatifactory results are also looking in to a lawsuit as well.
You missed the point of this post. My company had an A+ rating and still does. The BBB is coercing us to buy their service to retain it. They use all sorts of clever sales techniques to do so. They are not a true regulatory authority in my opinion, rather a for profit business using their brand to generate revenue.
Thank you for this edifying post. After two years of membership in the Chicago BBB, we finally realized that the whole thing is a shakedown, based on experiences remarkably similar to others described both here and in a 20/20 story I found on YouTube. As for “concerned consumer,” I’d bet dollars to donuts that she works for the BBB. How else would somebody NOT to trying to verify their suspicions about the BBB find your blog post eight months later?
I have recently got the run around from the BBB. We have a false complaint on our BBB profile. We were told by their managers to fax the supporting documents to a Mary Lou Diaz. This happened after 5 months of trying to get this resolved. First they told me to e-mail a Mr Robinson. We did that and just got a sales calls 3 days later. After faxing all the documents, they refused to remove the false complaint. This is kinda weird since they removed complaints for us before but we had to pay to become an accredited member first. The BBB is a scam that only backs up companies that pay to be part of their programs. They even support companies that advertise with them that have poor ratings with the BBB. The real bad thing about this is that people actually look at their site and get false information. Shame on the BBB. They are a scam.
Denny
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